anime - amatsuki - smile - summer

I really don't know where I'm going with this....

I am in the end, a pessimist, I think.

As much as I love my OTPs, the end of the matter is that I am very much aware, deep inside, that most of these ships I adore are not really canon compliant. They would never really happen in the actual universe. Or if it IS the most canon ship, there's always this "what-if" where other ships are just as much of a threat because of subtext and near situations. It seems so fragile.

As often as we want these people to get together, we see them hook up with others or things just don't work out - especially in fandom with all it's shipping wars. And when you put a little bit of yourself into this ship that you love - when you relate to them, cry with them and celebrate when things go right - you really don't want to focus on the other side of the matter.

You begin to ignore and sidestep the other ships. You know that every time you read a fic that's not about your ships, there's a chance for your favorite characters to get bashed or for authors to change the characters in ways that make you whimper in pain.

Through it all, you want that fic that makes your ship real. That fic that others - who may not be shippers - can read, see it as canon and that moment where it all clicks and they believe in the ship. That yes, this is a ship that really does work.

I admit, fanfiction is ultimately an alternate reality.

Still.

If one is able to take a closed canon fandom like HP - read the last words from the books and just continue where it leaves off - who's to say that the creation isn't real? At that point, anything's possible really.

In life there are moments where you wish you could change things in your life, where you wonder about what could have happened - and when it comes to stories and fanfiction, it's possible to do this. But.

I've come to realize that for me it's all or nothing. You either go completely AU and change everything around - or you view Harry as a person - someone who you've grown up with. I want to see how, after getting married and having kids he could still hook up with Draco. That, it's never too late and perhaps a good thing that it's taken them this long to get together.

Bah, in a weird mood. I don't really know where I'm going with this. Probably PMS. Just - ignore.

ETA: Yeah, I'm going to pin this on sheryden *shakes fist*
YES, YES, I WAS WONDERING WHAT ON EARTH SPARKED THIS AND IT WAS YOUR POST - followed by the hd_worldcup teams and my mind ended up on a tangent. Crap.
Sorry. :/ I've just been really frustrated, because of the current nastiness in the TW fandom.
*pats* It's 'kay - I probably need to get it out of my system anyway. Fandom can really do a number on us >__>
I'm pessimistic in most things, but I can believe in H/D happening. I read a lot of varied fic and some of it is absolutely brilliant. The way in which they get them both together works. At least for me.

HP may be closed canon now, but there's so much potential in continuing. The epilogue left me cold, mostly. I can easily believe that H/D can exist post epilogue. The H/G was really detached and I think there's so much to explore and still keep everything IC.

If one of them had died, I would probably find it hard to get too excited over any fic. Just knowing that there was no real happy ending would be too hard for me to ignore. Luckily, that didn't happen and just reading the latest fest fics, I couldn't be happier with the state of H/D as is. I'll never stop being amazed at how creative everyone has been about the epilogue and working around it. :)

Edited at 2008-01-20 01:18 am (UTC)
When I look at the really old fics, that were written before GoF/OotP - there are those which don't really end H/D - at that time there wasn't much basis in canon for anything apart from angst (which is why Irresistible poison is so impressive to date) - anyway, looking at those fics, it was incredibly disheartening because, you could understand why in many cases H/D could not and would not happen, no matter how much you'd want to believe otherwise.

I adore the development of Harry and Draco through the books - the epilogue may not be much but canon is what we make of it. In some ways, H/D might actually make a lot of sense post-epilogue. Draco having an heir, Harry having his white picket fences and not being satisfied. You can tell that the epilogue was written long before JKR wrote the series because based on the development of the characters through to the last chapter, we can see that if we merge those characters in properly with the paper-thin epilogue- we can definitely get H/D out of it.

Death would mean I'd need to go completely AU to feel ok with my OTP. I'd need to have the whole thing changed - perhaps even from the beginning -to feel like my ship could work. However, they did not die. None of the malfoys did so as a family, they came out wonderfully. And...Draco being in that grey area and Narcissa helping Harry - it's really an awesome way to leave things for fans to develop into more and to tie in with future events.

I used to loathe the epilogue but even before book 7 came out, I wanted fic where Draco had his own son and Harry had gotten over Ginny after trying to make the relationship work. With the hd_worldcup and Team Epilogue, I'm extremely excited about the possibilities...

And i started rambling *headdesk*
I can honestly believe H/D. I read A Friend Like Me years ago and it made it real. I'll be with my ship til it sinks - and I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. I think H/D can exist, epilogue or no, and it's still a world of possibilities, even with closed canon.

Also, I'm on Team Epilgoue for hd_worldcup, so I'll write one for you.
I can't seem to reread AFLM - I automatically feel a pang just from reading the name. I think what I'm looking for is a fic that's sort of an extension of canon and takes you to H/D by the end of it. I don't think I even need the smut - to be able to get non-shippers to read it and make a jump from gen or canon pairings and see how Harry and Draco could reach the point in their lives where they can get together - in the long term - that? Would be gold.

(I am so rooting for Team Epilogue XD)
I've only read a few fics that made me think "Wow... Maybe H/D really could happen". When I read fic, I take it for granted that I'm going have to suspend my disbelief - sometimes far more than others. It's still my OTP when done well, though, there's no doubt about that. At this point I just take fandom in general with a grain of salt.
I can't help but feeling that ship wars and fandom drama is dumb. I'm here because I like reading about boys sexin' each other up, not because I wanna see people argue with each other :P

And, um, really, I'm not sure what the point of this comment is. Not even gonna pretend to, *lol*.
Most H/D fics are really shipper fics - they're written with the idea that H/D shippers are going to read it. And we've read enough to be able to write offf OCC moments as fanon. But, it would be nice to see more fics written with the idea that peeps haven't read fic apart from the books - where the authors really get into the psyche of the characters and the canon and develop the story.

As slashers we don't usually expect to see our OTPs in books - so the wars between Harmonions and the Harry/Ginny shippers was just interesting to watch >__>

*hugs* SISTER
Interesting thoughts. I do wonder about being caught in my little corner of the fandom universe and wondering what's happening out there in the big fandom world. Then I stick my toe in and the story doesn't mention what I want and I crawl back to my corner.

I had a conversation recently about the epilogue and one of the comments was that we can't go on ignoring it forever - it's happened and sooner or later we will have to accept it. Hmmm

Then I watched a programme about an English vicar was looking at other religions and he went to a Buddhist monastery in the mountains of China. I wish I'd written down what he said, but it was basically about the men there being able to support and touch with it not been sexual and about how in the west everyone thinks of male friendship as being something more (sorry I haven't paraphrased that very well).

It made me wonder about the very first story I wrote (before I knew about slash) and how I wanted something in which Harry and Draco could end up as friends. I started filling in a request form for an exchange and thought it would be nice to move into a direction where Harry and Draco could be friends without them being lovers. But I took it out because I'm not sure if HD works in that way. Would it still be HD if they don’t have sex?

I think I’m fighting against canon when I write because there is this 19-year time span that JKR has given us and I don’t want it to be there. I want to write about the boys in their 20s and 30s but the epilogue is in the way.

So do I go AU? I guess it’s been AU since the moment I wrote HD for the first time.
Then I stick my toe in and the story doesn't mention what I want and I crawl back to my corner.

Yeah, I want to be able to read fics that aren't just H/D but with the perspective I've got, seeing Draco dismissed as insignificant and the lack of long, gen fics of quality...it's hard to branch out. It's easily to just have multiple fandoms and an OTP in each XD

When I think AU, I think of Maya's Ravenclaw!Draco in "If You've a Ready Mind" - if peeps are going to change something, why not just change everything? Otherwise - fandom's amazing in it's capacity to overcome the most awful canon circumstances - even death - and not by just ignoring it.

My favorite anime is FullMetal Alchemist - the reason being that it's all about brotherhood. There's no romance involved but the love and the way Edward and Alphonse place each other as the most important person in their lives - I haven't seen it in any other fandom really.

Harry and Draco as working partners - while marriages may fail, and children grow up (probably not in the way you wanted XD), having someone you relly on and relate to and can just be around. I kind of want that for H & D - that constant link between the two deepening to the point where being apart just does not make sense.

I've always wanted it to get to the point where even when they get around to the sex, that isn't the issue. It happens and it's just another part of their relationship. And the author doesn't need to write about it in detail.
H & D work, fight off baddies, go through major family problems (divorce, death...) and they still have each other through everything, including the points where life is just awesome.

Those 19 years need not be a bad thing. I adore femmequixotic's The Years that Walk Between because she not only fills in the gaps in those years, bridging the last chapter and the epilogue but she also get us to the H/D in the end.

I think I'm coming to hate the H/Dfics which happen between the last chapter and epilogue and don't actually say if they're epilogue compliant or not. So you wonder, if, despite H & D getting together at age 22, whether in a few years, they'll break up and get married to women and have kids. And their relationship (the one you just finished reading) is a thing of the past. The ambiguity of that kills me.

Y'know I think I don't really want to see fic as AU but rather as alternate canon - that given certain different circumstances, that fic could definitely be in the books XD
I do not see how not changing everything around means not viewing Harry as a person {which he isn't really if you go by JKR's opinion of him: much more divine and much less well-rounded} because that depends on the writer and the story. The problem I think with people getting Depressed or v. strict about Canon Compliance is that they fall into generalities and they tend to limit their own enjoyment and priorities. They say this and this and this must happen in Order for me to enjoy a story and even if the story is fabulously written they don't allow themselves to like it. I do want to recognize the characters I'm reading about when I foray into fanfiction {which is why I am not usually interested in AS/S} but I do not Understand how people get so high and mighty about Canon compliance when they write about Harry Potter falling in love with a man with whom he's never had a civil conversation. Really it's all about liking the characters and liking the story you are reading. Even if it's not Built to personal specs you still did not waste yr time on it if It was a worthwhile story, canon or no.
I kind of don't see the point of selectively changing bits and pieces of past canon if it's not an AU fic - it's great if Draco gets sorted into Hufflepuff - but if the author is doing post-series fic why make readers go WTF when they see that things are oddly different.

We associate certain events and experiences with characters and then reading something that clashes with that understanding just makes the whole fic feel...off.
It has happened to me when I read Certain fics that The author drops a "remember when we were buddy-buddies in 6th year" bomb and I'm also WTF about It and it does seem off. In cases like this it is a Disservice to the ship because it makes it seem as if H/D is really an impossibility Within canon. It's bad for a shipper to have That nagging suspicion. However, when I read Fics like Drop Dead Gorgeous with a gay Harry and a possibly bisexual Draco I Really don't want the writer to stay canon Compatible and to accept the Epilogue. In such a Case I really root for EWE.

In the case of Not in the Hands of Boys Fourth Rose has acknowledged the existence of the Epilogue by using it In such a way that it looks like the fantasies of a love-starved boy. Harry dreams of the Epilogue in its full sappy Glory and I thought it was really clever and meta how she got it in While emphasizing its irreality and immaturity.

I think there are ways of staying Faithful to canon while not necessarily remaining canon compliant in the strictest sense. Plus, I really don't want to read only about Harry and Draco in their 40's. Though I like to, I do not want to feel limited.

{Have you read The Price we Pay for Wings? It deals with the Epilogue beautifully and I think It is one of the best If not the best fic in that fest.}
I think we're on the same page in this case. I don't want canon events to be ignored because I read fics and I know that things aren't quite right, because the history is all wrong and there's always a part of me going "?" and trying to reconcile the two histories in my head. However, characterizations don't have to be completely canon.

Some of my favorite characterizations of Draco in particular are ultimately, fanon (Maya's If You've a Ready Mind) - it's what Draco could have been if he were the one focussed on in the series. Of course there are a huge number of fanon portrayls that just make me go WTF - though there are several canon!Dracos that have left me cold too.

I adored how NitHoB dealt with the epilogue - I've come to the point where I don't want people to ignore the epilogue - it's like trying to ignore the fact that Ginny and Harry hooked up in the last two books. It happened, deal with it and move the story on to H & D hooking up.

I actually do want to read older!H/D - I'm a bit tired of all the teen!fic and teen!angst - one of the reasons I fell in love with Supernatural when it premiered was because of them being adults and still incredibly interesting (and hot, hot hot).

I think my favorite post DH fic is THe Years that Walk Between by femmequixotic - taking it from immediately after the last chapter, through to the epilogue and after - to the point where we get our H/D. It was just wonderful.

I can't seem to bring myself to read The Price We Pay for Wings - knowing there's deaths et all just makes me run away right now...maybe in future.
I'm actually in a similar position with all this and I've sorted a potential future where the epilogue happens but isn't the end.

Part of that reasoning is that we can except an average wizard to live well over 100 years and what they're doing in their 30's isn't all that likely to be all they ever do.

Maybe someday I'll write that story. ;)